This post comes with two disclaimers. 1) I'm going to talk about screens and food. I'm going to talk about them critically and use words like "addiction" and "unhealthy". I know these words can land uncomfortably, so if you're not feeling into it right now, mosey on along. It's totally okay. Maybe come back later, but if not, that's okay too.
My screen time is close to that average, but I read books on my phone because that’s what I can do while the baby naps. I also work on my phone for the same reason. And I text with friends a lot (I’m not sorry.) knowing all that, my screen use feels healthy and joyful for me. I wonder how we would feel breaking our screen numbers down — how many of us would still feel uneasy and how many would feel good about the use of time.
I don't at all question the immense convenience of smart phones! Having everything in one place in a size that can fit in my pocket is so incredibly helpful. I want to critically examine what it means to condense all of our activities down to a single device where before it would have been divided between books and newspaper and coffee dates. The worry doesn't come from the activities (although on a personal level, I don't like my own doom scrolling) but from the replacement of other activities with our phones.
Yeah, it’s an interesting point. I want to know more about the way one device makes you worry more than using multiple different things for a similar purpose? I’m really curious about that perspective and what the worry or difference. I don’t quite understand yet!
I mean, of course I don’t see tech as a replacement for friendships, absolutely not. And to bring it back to your point about us not living the way we are meant to, I would much rather have a friend next door than texting them in my phone. But in our current situation, what’s the shift you imagine that would feel better or less worrying?
I do want to say: phone contains books. The only difference is the blue light, but I would really push back on viewing reading a book on a phone as inferior. Do I miss the feeling of a book in my hands? Absolutely. So much. Could I read a book without my phone? Nope! It would wake my child up.
I want to be really clear here: I'm not interested in discussing whether my experience qualifies as addiction. I think that word is convoluted and weighted. I've quit smoking. I've quit drinking. I've quit doing drugs. I know people who still do those things. Some of them suffer from addiction and others do so casually. People can have different experiences and all of them are valid.
Based on the experience that I've had over recent years (keeping in mind my family lives rurally in relative isolation), there is no question in my mind that the dependency that we feel towards social media (FB, Insta, YouTube) and video games is unhealthy. It's presented barriers, limitations, and causing depression. Is the root of problems multifaceted? Absolutely. Do the aforementioned screen activities perpetuate the problems we're facing. Without a question.
If you're using tech and screens in a way that is not causing those problems, that's awesome! I hope we can get there some day too. But, with immense respect, to suggest that my experience is invalid because it's not the same experience that others have had is honestly a bit hurtful and I think dangerous.
And it's not necessarily the activities on the phone for me: it's about the constant reach to check notifications, the ten minutes that get lost scrolling when I go to look something up, the inability to find joy in other areas of life. With my kids, I have witnessed a direct correlation with their interest in other activities when their screen time is unlimited. My youngest openly expresses that he feels overwhelmingly sad when he's watched too much YouTube. I could go on, but I think you know what I mean.
I’m re-reading my comments and I don’t see where I suggested your experience was invalid. Was it the comment about the books? I genuinely hadn’t thought through the idea of everything being in one device instead of multiple experiences or resources and I wanted to know more about that perspective. Did that ask sound like a judgement and not a question?
I think it's the suggestion that breaking down the screen use into different activities would alleviate the unease about usage to start the chat along with the subtle suggestions that a different mindset might resolve the problem. I might also be reading into things the wrong way! There have been quite a few comments with folks relaying their own usage and what feels good for them as if I follow their lead, then it might feel better for me. I might totally be projecting, Bria, and if that's the case, I'm sorry <3
Ah. It was more a thought exercise on my part. I didn’t think that would make EVERYONE feel better. I was more thinking about the study you cited and wondering out loud how many people know what their time is spent on. Because YES — not intentionally choosing to engage on screens in ways that feel good is a real problem. So maybe knowing our usage would help us see where we are intentionally engaging and where we aren’t, what feels good and what doesn’t. What feels unhealthy and what feels healthy. I think I was triggered by the simple outline of “4-5 hours” and then the participants being uncomfortable with that amount, with no details about how and why or if what they spent time on mattered to them or felt like an unhappy time suck.
I realize I didn’t… say all of this in the original comment. I appreciate you clarifying and engaging more about it. And I didn’t mean you should do that and then you’d feel better. Sounds like you already know what does and doesn’t feel good for you. I really didn’t mean to imply that comment was about you.
I'm with you and I've written about this too. Before I had a solution to addiction, I didn't want to name the problem either. It's scary and vulnerable and makes people uncomfortable. We've had more than the usual amount of processed foods in the house for a few months now and I'm over it. I feel so much happier and balanced when neither wifi or sugar live with us. I can get all my online tasks done in an hour or two at a coffee shop per day, while enjoying a croissant or hot chocolate prepared by professionals in the place where it's most pleasurable to do so. The good news is, these modern conveniences are based on an unsustainable system that will inevitably fall at some point. And that is also the bad news. But until then, we can not be fully free from addiction of every kind because addiction is a problem of social design and not just an individual flaw.
"A problem of social design" - I really love this but would amend a problem of social design in a capitalist culture that promotes financial return over human well being.
Well if we are getting into the diagnosis of the problem we can go even deeper and name it as patriarchy. Which all starts with the institution of fatherhood, and man as God.
I am one of those people who feels uncomfortable about the words "unhealthy" and "addiction" and yet I agree with you and I am so glad you have written about this.
So much anti-diet culture talk seems to take the sugar-filled environment for granted, and I'm like... the environment you are writing from sounds really f*ked up. By that environment I mean the US. In Australia it's not much better. I don't know if that makes any sense, I am exhausted from bedtime tears (not mine).
Maybe instead of trying to solve this problem individually by divesting from diet culture we could be trying to divest from the industrial food complex? Not demonising processed food but learning to love real food again.
I have written about food in this comment because the screen thing is much harder for me.
Thanks Emmeline and thanks for bringing up diet-culture and how it plays into this discussion. I honestly didn't even think of the term when I was writing the post but it has such huge implications on this topic. I hope some sleep helped relieve the bedtime stress <3
Thanks Meghan <3 Reading comments here has definitely opened up the topic to even wider issues like diet culture, decolonization, environmental issues, and more. She's all connected!
It’s wild to me that just existing in the society we’ve created feels so effortful at times.. because of the normalisation of so many things that just aren’t really evolutionarily normal. I’ve reduce my IG time drastically the past 2 weeks and wow, it’s been fucking amazing. I feel SO much better. I also actually want to go out and do things because I recognise that’s how I get more real connection. I’m also loving Marco Polo! That feels closer to chatting to actual people. And I still think that not all screen time is the same. If I’m reading on Substack, that’s a wonderful thing. If I’m chatting with friends over voice messaging, that too is actual connection and joy. So I suppose that I don’t like to lump all things under screen time, the same way I don’t like to lump foods under healthy or unhealthy.. it’s about what it’s giving me in that moment and how I feel afterwards. A lot to think about here, as always!!
Re foods & screens, what has worried me is the solidifying of habits. If eating chocolate feels joyful then yay for me, if I get into a habit where I need to eat it every day at the same time.. hmm there’s perhaps an issue there. Same thing with some digital activities.
Agreed. Manageable doses is going to be an individual measure so there's absolutely no condemnation of chocolate or screens - I really wanted to highlight how we justify the problem when we can clearly see there IS a problem with normalization.
Hmm. I agree with some of what you said on a personal level - that is, I try to be mindful of how I spend my time both online and in person, and to always be reflecting on whether it is the best use of my limited energy. In the same way, I'm thoughtful about what I put in to my body - I feel best with a paleo-ish diet that's heavy on greens.
I try to be careful about generalizing what I've found works best for me to others though, especially kids. This is largely because I spent many years feeling really good about the beautiful container we had created for our children (waldorfish, lots of nature, limited access to processed food/gluten/sugar, one set hour of screen time a day) - only to realize that that "beautiful container" started to feel oppressive for them. They wanted to try lots of things and make their own choices and their own mistakes. Some of this was developmental as they got older.
Now they do make a lot more choices, often different ones than mine. They often make what I consider to be mistakes. Sometimes it's hard to watch (like that one kid who eats a whole bag of halloween candy in 48 hours, blech). But our relationship is stronger because I'm not standing in a place of power over them, but am instead trying to offer gentle guidance, while always being on their side.
In general, I align with Naomi Fisher on screens and kids - I try to join them in their screen based interests, offer more options for things to do together off screens, and bring awareness to how we are all feeling. But I consider screens neutral. They are a tool for connecting with friends, just as much as going to in person events, and they are more accessible for some kids at some times.
Lots more thoughts, but I have a kid ready to play. :)
To be clear: I'm not condemning smart phones. They are endlessly useful. Screens themselves are morally neutral (although not apolitical), but how we use them is not.
When it comes to our kids, there are great ways that we can use screens as tools in home education and life in general. This post isn't about that at all. This post is about normalizing over use in a ways that is clearly harmful, and how I personally continue to justify that harm by using cultural context as a baseline. I have a whole host of other thoughts about how this effects our kids, but that's more for another day ;)
It’s like a cultural version of shifting baseline syndrome in the natural environment - when our idea of what is normal is based on a few years ago rather than decades or longer ago.
My screen time is close to that average, but I read books on my phone because that’s what I can do while the baby naps. I also work on my phone for the same reason. And I text with friends a lot (I’m not sorry.) knowing all that, my screen use feels healthy and joyful for me. I wonder how we would feel breaking our screen numbers down — how many of us would still feel uneasy and how many would feel good about the use of time.
I don't at all question the immense convenience of smart phones! Having everything in one place in a size that can fit in my pocket is so incredibly helpful. I want to critically examine what it means to condense all of our activities down to a single device where before it would have been divided between books and newspaper and coffee dates. The worry doesn't come from the activities (although on a personal level, I don't like my own doom scrolling) but from the replacement of other activities with our phones.
Yeah, it’s an interesting point. I want to know more about the way one device makes you worry more than using multiple different things for a similar purpose? I’m really curious about that perspective and what the worry or difference. I don’t quite understand yet!
I mean, of course I don’t see tech as a replacement for friendships, absolutely not. And to bring it back to your point about us not living the way we are meant to, I would much rather have a friend next door than texting them in my phone. But in our current situation, what’s the shift you imagine that would feel better or less worrying?
I do want to say: phone contains books. The only difference is the blue light, but I would really push back on viewing reading a book on a phone as inferior. Do I miss the feeling of a book in my hands? Absolutely. So much. Could I read a book without my phone? Nope! It would wake my child up.
I want to be really clear here: I'm not interested in discussing whether my experience qualifies as addiction. I think that word is convoluted and weighted. I've quit smoking. I've quit drinking. I've quit doing drugs. I know people who still do those things. Some of them suffer from addiction and others do so casually. People can have different experiences and all of them are valid.
Based on the experience that I've had over recent years (keeping in mind my family lives rurally in relative isolation), there is no question in my mind that the dependency that we feel towards social media (FB, Insta, YouTube) and video games is unhealthy. It's presented barriers, limitations, and causing depression. Is the root of problems multifaceted? Absolutely. Do the aforementioned screen activities perpetuate the problems we're facing. Without a question.
If you're using tech and screens in a way that is not causing those problems, that's awesome! I hope we can get there some day too. But, with immense respect, to suggest that my experience is invalid because it's not the same experience that others have had is honestly a bit hurtful and I think dangerous.
And it's not necessarily the activities on the phone for me: it's about the constant reach to check notifications, the ten minutes that get lost scrolling when I go to look something up, the inability to find joy in other areas of life. With my kids, I have witnessed a direct correlation with their interest in other activities when their screen time is unlimited. My youngest openly expresses that he feels overwhelmingly sad when he's watched too much YouTube. I could go on, but I think you know what I mean.
I’m re-reading my comments and I don’t see where I suggested your experience was invalid. Was it the comment about the books? I genuinely hadn’t thought through the idea of everything being in one device instead of multiple experiences or resources and I wanted to know more about that perspective. Did that ask sound like a judgement and not a question?
I think it's the suggestion that breaking down the screen use into different activities would alleviate the unease about usage to start the chat along with the subtle suggestions that a different mindset might resolve the problem. I might also be reading into things the wrong way! There have been quite a few comments with folks relaying their own usage and what feels good for them as if I follow their lead, then it might feel better for me. I might totally be projecting, Bria, and if that's the case, I'm sorry <3
Ah. It was more a thought exercise on my part. I didn’t think that would make EVERYONE feel better. I was more thinking about the study you cited and wondering out loud how many people know what their time is spent on. Because YES — not intentionally choosing to engage on screens in ways that feel good is a real problem. So maybe knowing our usage would help us see where we are intentionally engaging and where we aren’t, what feels good and what doesn’t. What feels unhealthy and what feels healthy. I think I was triggered by the simple outline of “4-5 hours” and then the participants being uncomfortable with that amount, with no details about how and why or if what they spent time on mattered to them or felt like an unhappy time suck.
I realize I didn’t… say all of this in the original comment. I appreciate you clarifying and engaging more about it. And I didn’t mean you should do that and then you’d feel better. Sounds like you already know what does and doesn’t feel good for you. I really didn’t mean to imply that comment was about you.
I'm with you and I've written about this too. Before I had a solution to addiction, I didn't want to name the problem either. It's scary and vulnerable and makes people uncomfortable. We've had more than the usual amount of processed foods in the house for a few months now and I'm over it. I feel so much happier and balanced when neither wifi or sugar live with us. I can get all my online tasks done in an hour or two at a coffee shop per day, while enjoying a croissant or hot chocolate prepared by professionals in the place where it's most pleasurable to do so. The good news is, these modern conveniences are based on an unsustainable system that will inevitably fall at some point. And that is also the bad news. But until then, we can not be fully free from addiction of every kind because addiction is a problem of social design and not just an individual flaw.
"A problem of social design" - I really love this but would amend a problem of social design in a capitalist culture that promotes financial return over human well being.
Well if we are getting into the diagnosis of the problem we can go even deeper and name it as patriarchy. Which all starts with the institution of fatherhood, and man as God.
For sure. It's all connected!
I am one of those people who feels uncomfortable about the words "unhealthy" and "addiction" and yet I agree with you and I am so glad you have written about this.
So much anti-diet culture talk seems to take the sugar-filled environment for granted, and I'm like... the environment you are writing from sounds really f*ked up. By that environment I mean the US. In Australia it's not much better. I don't know if that makes any sense, I am exhausted from bedtime tears (not mine).
Maybe instead of trying to solve this problem individually by divesting from diet culture we could be trying to divest from the industrial food complex? Not demonising processed food but learning to love real food again.
I have written about food in this comment because the screen thing is much harder for me.
Thank you again, for writing about this.
Thanks Emmeline and thanks for bringing up diet-culture and how it plays into this discussion. I honestly didn't even think of the term when I was writing the post but it has such huge implications on this topic. I hope some sleep helped relieve the bedtime stress <3
this is a fascinating opening to a much larger conversation about embodiment, access, belonging, community building and so much more.
we have to be able to critically think and engage with our behaviors and patterns AND not fall into shame or moralization of our every minute🫶🏼🙏🏼🫀
Thanks Meghan <3 Reading comments here has definitely opened up the topic to even wider issues like diet culture, decolonization, environmental issues, and more. She's all connected!
It’s wild to me that just existing in the society we’ve created feels so effortful at times.. because of the normalisation of so many things that just aren’t really evolutionarily normal. I’ve reduce my IG time drastically the past 2 weeks and wow, it’s been fucking amazing. I feel SO much better. I also actually want to go out and do things because I recognise that’s how I get more real connection. I’m also loving Marco Polo! That feels closer to chatting to actual people. And I still think that not all screen time is the same. If I’m reading on Substack, that’s a wonderful thing. If I’m chatting with friends over voice messaging, that too is actual connection and joy. So I suppose that I don’t like to lump all things under screen time, the same way I don’t like to lump foods under healthy or unhealthy.. it’s about what it’s giving me in that moment and how I feel afterwards. A lot to think about here, as always!!
Re foods & screens, what has worried me is the solidifying of habits. If eating chocolate feels joyful then yay for me, if I get into a habit where I need to eat it every day at the same time.. hmm there’s perhaps an issue there. Same thing with some digital activities.
Agreed. Manageable doses is going to be an individual measure so there's absolutely no condemnation of chocolate or screens - I really wanted to highlight how we justify the problem when we can clearly see there IS a problem with normalization.
yeah. I appreciate you speaking honestly on this. We def need more of it - and frankly. IG is not the place for it!!!
Hmm. I agree with some of what you said on a personal level - that is, I try to be mindful of how I spend my time both online and in person, and to always be reflecting on whether it is the best use of my limited energy. In the same way, I'm thoughtful about what I put in to my body - I feel best with a paleo-ish diet that's heavy on greens.
I try to be careful about generalizing what I've found works best for me to others though, especially kids. This is largely because I spent many years feeling really good about the beautiful container we had created for our children (waldorfish, lots of nature, limited access to processed food/gluten/sugar, one set hour of screen time a day) - only to realize that that "beautiful container" started to feel oppressive for them. They wanted to try lots of things and make their own choices and their own mistakes. Some of this was developmental as they got older.
Now they do make a lot more choices, often different ones than mine. They often make what I consider to be mistakes. Sometimes it's hard to watch (like that one kid who eats a whole bag of halloween candy in 48 hours, blech). But our relationship is stronger because I'm not standing in a place of power over them, but am instead trying to offer gentle guidance, while always being on their side.
In general, I align with Naomi Fisher on screens and kids - I try to join them in their screen based interests, offer more options for things to do together off screens, and bring awareness to how we are all feeling. But I consider screens neutral. They are a tool for connecting with friends, just as much as going to in person events, and they are more accessible for some kids at some times.
Lots more thoughts, but I have a kid ready to play. :)
Thanks for sharing!
To be clear: I'm not condemning smart phones. They are endlessly useful. Screens themselves are morally neutral (although not apolitical), but how we use them is not.
When it comes to our kids, there are great ways that we can use screens as tools in home education and life in general. This post isn't about that at all. This post is about normalizing over use in a ways that is clearly harmful, and how I personally continue to justify that harm by using cultural context as a baseline. I have a whole host of other thoughts about how this effects our kids, but that's more for another day ;)
You’re right, I went off on my own tangent because I spend a lot of time thinking about all the time my kids spend on screens. ;)
It’s like a cultural version of shifting baseline syndrome in the natural environment - when our idea of what is normal is based on a few years ago rather than decades or longer ago.
Totally. It's a bit frightening how quickly that baseline shifts these days.